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Topic : 1700 cams in a 1600 ??
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 AussieDave 
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Reg. Date : 18/08/2013
Posts : 210
Location : Sydney, Australia
Posted : 14 Nov 2013 - 07:07   Post title : 1700 cams in a 1600 ??
 
Hi all I had an interesting conversation with my local triumph service tech today . I rang him to get a quote on fitting a big bore kit to my my t bird. I got quoted $1300 to fit full kit But he made the suggestion to just fit the 1700 cams to my 1600 .He said he,s done a few now and it really wakes the bike up and makes them a lot more revvy .he reckon with the 1700 cams, tors and filter they make the same HP as a 1700 but obviously not the torque (less cubes).He said the bikes he,s done the owners have been rapped with the improvement. So its given me something to think about .Anyone out there had this done?? Whats your thought guys??

 
Triumphs the best stuff the rest
2012 T bird Phantom Black 1600 with 1700 cams custom tune Meerkat cat delete and mufflers, K&N filter, Hagon nitro shock&springs ,long haul seat and lots of bling
2013 T100 all Jet Black Bonneville Norman Hyde pipes ,K&N
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 Leethal 
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Reg. Date : 24/01/2011
Posts : 6,407
Location :  Australia
Posted : 14 Nov 2013 - 07:55   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: AussieDave)
 
Did he give you an idea of price Dave?

 
Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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 AussieDave 
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Reg. Date : 18/08/2013
Posts : 210
Location : Sydney, Australia
Posted : 14 Nov 2013 - 08:52   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Leethal)
 
Yeh he quoted me $450 to install cams and tune. I priced the cams and both cams come to about $900 where as the whole big bore kit is only a $100 more so better off buying the kit anyway .But my thought is buy the kit use the cams and then I,ve got the pistons ,sleeves etc for when it needs a freshen up later down the track

 
Triumphs the best stuff the rest
2012 T bird Phantom Black 1600 with 1700 cams custom tune Meerkat cat delete and mufflers, K&N filter, Hagon nitro shock&springs ,long haul seat and lots of bling
2013 T100 all Jet Black Bonneville Norman Hyde pipes ,K&N
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 Leethal 
Zeus
Reg. Date : 24/01/2011
Posts : 6,407
Location :  Australia
Posted : 14 Nov 2013 - 09:36   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: AussieDave)
 
He must already have a suitable tune to load at that price, wonder which one it is. Your PCV and AT will be good for this once sorted.

 
Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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 mag10 
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Reg. Date : 05/02/2010
Posts : 482
Location : Wisconsin, United States
Posted : 14 Nov 2013 - 13:53   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: AussieDave)
 

AussieDave wrote:

Hi all I had an interesting conversation with my local triumph service tech today . I rang him to get a quote on fitting a big bore kit to my my t bird. I got quoted $1300 to fit full kit But he made the suggestion to just fit the 1700 cams to my 1600 .He said he,s done a few now and it really wakes the bike up and makes them a lot more revvy .he reckon with the 1700 cams, tors and filter they make the same HP as a 1700 but obviously not the torque (less cubes).He said the bikes he,s done the owners have been rapped with the improvement. So its given me something to think about .Anyone out there had this done?? Whats your thought guys??


I had the BB cams installed in March of 2011 (I have a 2010 1600) parts, labor, and an aftermarket clutch install was $900 USD. I already had a D&D exhaust and UnI filter. the dealer had put in a 1700 TORs tune when I picked it up. It was a noticable difference.
Since then I have changed the exhuast and tried out several tunes (that others have be kind enough to post) and it keeps getting better.
and more than 20,000 miles since the cam swap. It will lift the front wheel in first and second or smoke the rear tire anytime you want (or sometimes when you dont want!)

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 AussieDave 
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Reg. Date : 18/08/2013
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Location : Sydney, Australia
Posted : 15 Nov 2013 - 06:32   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: mag10)
 
Thanks for that info .Has the bike stayed reliable ? and can you hear the difference through the pipes (cam lobe)?.
Im thinking I might go with this option I already have long tors and a K&N so think ill decat it and get cams fitted and see how that goes. that's the problem with being an ex drag racer you always want more power

 
Triumphs the best stuff the rest
2012 T bird Phantom Black 1600 with 1700 cams custom tune Meerkat cat delete and mufflers, K&N filter, Hagon nitro shock&springs ,long haul seat and lots of bling
2013 T100 all Jet Black Bonneville Norman Hyde pipes ,K&N
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 mag10 
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Posts : 482
Location : Wisconsin, United States
Posted : 15 Nov 2013 - 13:51   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: AussieDave)
 

AussieDave wrote:

Thanks for that info .Has the bike stayed reliable ? and can you hear the difference through the pipes (cam lobe)?.
Im thinking I might go with this option I already have long tors and a K&N so think ill decat it and get cams fitted and see how that goes. that's the problem with being an ex drag racer you always want more power


No reliability issues. I have done a couple of 900 miles days and 4-500 miles a day weeks since those cams went in with no problems.
The power curve definitely changes, without loosing any low end, it winds out faster and keeps on pulling. Pretty good for a factory cam. I am sure you could get a lot more out of a custom cam.

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 Lantesh 
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Location :  United States
Posted : 01 Dec 2013 - 02:19   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: AussieDave)
 
I've also been wanting to do this for a long time, and I think I will at the 12k service interval. I've got just over 7k now, so I've got time. It stands to reason that most of the power gain is in the cams. 100cc is not that much of a difference. I like your idea of buying the entire kit, and saving the sleeves and pistons for some day in the future. It really depends on how much the cost difference is I guess. I think what you were quoted was high.

Post edited by Lantesh on 01 Dec 2013 - 02:20
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 daz 
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Reg. Date : 12/05/2009
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Posted : 01 Dec 2013 - 06:53   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Lantesh)
 
I think the cams vs BB is the best bang for the buck. granted, i have not been able to compare but i'm quite sure the cams are probably 80% of the gains that the big bore kit gives. I did the BB and i'm glad i did just because i'm very anal about getting the most power i can and torque is king in my book. But i think the cost was well past the point of diminishing returns. I think the best route is cams and power commander with auto tune. I think the result will be close plus you have peace of mind that the fueling is accurate. Using mark's tune with the BB i'm probably a bit better power wise, but i don't have the peace of mind knowing the bike is fueled optimally for max reliability over the years i intend to keep it.

 
2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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 AussieDave 
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Reg. Date : 18/08/2013
Posts : 210
Location : Sydney, Australia
Posted : 01 Dec 2013 - 07:31   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Lantesh)
 
Yeh parts prices over here are dear compared to what you guys can pick them up for .all the reaserch I,ve done points to the cams being the best power gain .I have a complete bb kit on its way over from the US. to buy it here is $1045 yet including shipping is only $870 from the US (big saving ) I,ve also purchased a MEERCAT cat bypass and when the bb kit arrives ill fit the bypass and get the cams fitted and tune done .The triumph tech assures me ill be impressed with the gain When its all done and I have some results ill post them up.

 
Triumphs the best stuff the rest
2012 T bird Phantom Black 1600 with 1700 cams custom tune Meerkat cat delete and mufflers, K&N filter, Hagon nitro shock&springs ,long haul seat and lots of bling
2013 T100 all Jet Black Bonneville Norman Hyde pipes ,K&N
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 rabbi 
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Reg. Date : 28/02/2012
Posts : 926
Location : Geelong, Victoria, Australia
Posted : 01 Dec 2013 - 08:10   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: AussieDave)
 
Hi Dave

Are these the right part numbers?

Inlet cam assembly 1700 BB : PFKL2028464

Exhaust cam assembly 1700 BB : PFKL2031840



 
"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why so few people engage in it"
Henry Ford
Post edited by rabbi on 01 Dec 2013 - 08:11
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 AussieDave 
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Reg. Date : 18/08/2013
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Location : Sydney, Australia
Posted : 01 Dec 2013 - 09:50   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: rabbi)
 
Yeh mate they are the part #s I got quoted when I tried sourcing the cams on their own .But I found the cost of the cams alone came very close to the cost of a complete bb kit so that's what I opted for .

 
Triumphs the best stuff the rest
2012 T bird Phantom Black 1600 with 1700 cams custom tune Meerkat cat delete and mufflers, K&N filter, Hagon nitro shock&springs ,long haul seat and lots of bling
2013 T100 all Jet Black Bonneville Norman Hyde pipes ,K&N
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 intimidator32 
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Reg. Date : 12/05/2012
Posts : 913
Location : lexington, ky, United States
Posted : 01 Dec 2013 - 23:41   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: AussieDave)
 
Hey guys just a thought but i wonder if the cams in the new 1700's will be different than the BB kits they have different power specs than the storm wonder what the difference is

 
currently on a slow Harley but will have another Triumph eventually
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 mat1600 
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Posted : 02 Dec 2013 - 00:57   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: intimidator32)
 
They reckon on more low down torque - no need for increased HP.

 
My first natural instinct is to breathe. My second is to evade tax's.


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 AussieDave 
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Posted : 02 Dec 2013 - 06:30   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: intimidator32)
 
From the specs I,ve seen the new models have less power and torque than previous years

 
Triumphs the best stuff the rest
2012 T bird Phantom Black 1600 with 1700 cams custom tune Meerkat cat delete and mufflers, K&N filter, Hagon nitro shock&springs ,long haul seat and lots of bling
2013 T100 all Jet Black Bonneville Norman Hyde pipes ,K&N
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 Leethal 
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Posted : 02 Dec 2013 - 07:21   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: AussieDave)
 
Well they are aimed at the HD market!

 
Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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 Agent86 
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Posted : 02 Dec 2013 - 11:10   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Leethal)
 
Yeah maybe so but how can a reduction in power & torque ever be a good thing!

 
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity .
2012 storm, re - ground cams, ported head, power commander, short tors, high flow filter & Meerkat cat bypass..
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 gdp 
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Posted : 06 Jan 2014 - 16:11   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Agent86)
 
Am thinking along the same lines myself....cams, and keep the BB as a backup for later.....I've got 32000 miles and this engine really loosened up at about 25000....( revs out more freely and loves shifting anywhere between 3800-4500rpm...whereas before it seemed pointless to go much beyong 3300 or so)....love this bird the more I ride it.....

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 AussieDave 
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Reg. Date : 18/08/2013
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Location : Sydney, Australia
Posted : 06 Jan 2014 - 20:04   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: gdp)
 
I have my bike booked in to get the cams fitted next week and have opted for custom dyno tune (tuneboy) Brad from bikebiz tells me this will give the best gains and gives me 3 map otions I can change with the flick of the clutch lever .Ill post the results when its done

 
Triumphs the best stuff the rest
2012 T bird Phantom Black 1600 with 1700 cams custom tune Meerkat cat delete and mufflers, K&N filter, Hagon nitro shock&springs ,long haul seat and lots of bling
2013 T100 all Jet Black Bonneville Norman Hyde pipes ,K&N
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 Smitty 
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Location : Hawkesbury, NSW, Australia
Posted : 06 Jan 2014 - 21:26   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: AussieDave)
 

AussieDave wrote:

I have my bike booked in to get the cams fitted next week and have opted for custom dyno tune (tuneboy) Brad from bikebiz tells me this will give the best gains and gives me 3 map otions I can change with the flick of the clutch lever .Ill post the results when its done


Hey Dave,

Brad knows his Tuneboy stuff, he has done a fair few of our bikes now, I have the 1700 Storm so didn't need the cams or BB kit.

He did mine about 12 months ago. Fitted Forans, removed cat, K&N filter, air box mod, tuneboy tune and dyno.
I've had no issues and i'm very happy with the set up.

One thing though, I only got the results afterwards. What I should have done was get him to dyno the bike before and after, so as to get a good measure of the gains.

Cheer Smitty

 
Cheers Smitty

2013 Matt Graphite Storm, Foran Razorbacks, Hagon shocks & springs.
I don't get angry, I get even
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 intimidator32 
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Reg. Date : 12/05/2012
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Location : lexington, ky, United States
Posted : 06 Jan 2014 - 23:37   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Smitty)
 
So Smitty, what were your numbers? please post them

 
currently on a slow Harley but will have another Triumph eventually
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 Smitty 
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Posted : 07 Jan 2014 - 00:15   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: intimidator32)
 

intimidator32 wrote:

So Smitty, what were your numbers? please post them


Not sure where the dyno sheets are at the moment.
I did a search and found the tread "Tuneboy Question" in "Performance Mods" from Jan last year, where I posted the info......

"Had my 1700 Storm done last week.
Foran pipes, cat removed, crossover installed, K&N filter, airboxseal removed, Tuneboy Tune and Dyno.
I was expecting the big difference to be mainly on paper, but was very impressed with the very noticeable improvement on the road.

The Dyno sheet only shows a bit over 6hp and 5nm torque gains from Triumph Tune to the Tuneboy tune. (both runs with the above mods)
I should have had a Dyno run in stock trim first, then i would see how much gain was from the pipes & mods and how much gain from the tune, but too late now.....

Anyhow, I am totally happy at this early stage with the look, sound, quality and the very noticeable performance improvements....."

 
Cheers Smitty

2013 Matt Graphite Storm, Foran Razorbacks, Hagon shocks & springs.
I don't get angry, I get even
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 AussieDave 
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Posted : 07 Jan 2014 - 06:53   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Smitty)
 
Yeh Smitty after talking to Brad last week for about an hour I kinda got the impression he knows his stuff . Ive been around drag cars and big engines all my life but not had much to do with bike motors as far as performance gains but he answered every question I through at him . So im really looking forward to seeing and feeling the results.

 
Triumphs the best stuff the rest
2012 T bird Phantom Black 1600 with 1700 cams custom tune Meerkat cat delete and mufflers, K&N filter, Hagon nitro shock&springs ,long haul seat and lots of bling
2013 T100 all Jet Black Bonneville Norman Hyde pipes ,K&N
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 daz 
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Posted : 10 Jan 2014 - 17:39   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Smitty)
 

Smitty wrote:

intimidator32 wrote:

So Smitty, what were your numbers? please post them


Not sure where the dyno sheets are at the moment.
I did a search and found the tread "Tuneboy Question" in "Performance Mods" from Jan last year, where I posted the info......

"Had my 1700 Storm done last week.
Foran pipes, cat removed, crossover installed, K&N filter, airboxseal removed, Tuneboy Tune and Dyno.
I was expecting the big difference to be mainly on paper, but was very impressed with the very noticeable improvement on the road.

The Dyno sheet only shows a bit over 6hp and 5nm torque gains from Triumph Tune to the Tuneboy tune. (both runs with the above mods)
I should have had a Dyno run in stock trim first, then i would see how much gain was from the pipes & mods and how much gain from the tune, but too late now.....

Anyhow, I am totally happy at this early stage with the look, sound, quality and the very noticeable performance improvements....."



Same here. I didn't do exactly what you did, but essentially the same thing. Short tors, gutted cat box (a bit more than gutted actually) seal removed, and custom tune which is a power commander tune someone uploaded and converted for use with tuneecu. Mark's seat hack tune to be exact. I have said it a few times and i'm sure some think i'm FOS, but having had the 1700 kit put in my formerly 1600 Tbird, i think i have a good idea of the difference and i believe the catmod/pipes and tune gave me about the same gains as the 1700 kit did. I don't need a dyno to tell me anything because it's what my butt dyno feels that matters. And it feels a serious difference. In fact, i have since had no urge to seek out better performance. If someone finds a way to coax more out of it easily i'd be willing to give it a shot if it's cheap or free, but i have no more need to keep trying to get more as i have in the past. It may not be R3, but it's at that point where it has enough to keep me from feeling it's lacking at all. Till this point i DID feel it was lacking.

 
2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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 intimidator32 
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Posted : 11 Jan 2014 - 00:28   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: daz)
 
dont know this to be true but i just spoke to my local Triumph mechanic and he said that Triumph gave Carpenter Racing a few 1700's to play around with and see what upgrades would be possible i.e. cams ,pistons, air intakes, pipes, and such. he also said he had just installed a BC air box removal kit on a storm with hogslayers and a triumph tune and other than the new air noise from under the seat didnt fill that it gained that much over just adding a highflow filter. we also talked about the new trophy and he said they had been having a lot of problems out of them. he said when the commanders and LT's come in that he would call me in for a demo ride

 
currently on a slow Harley but will have another Triumph eventually
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 daz 
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Posted : 11 Jan 2014 - 06:37   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: intimidator32)
 
Well, yeah !!! Of course it didn't, and in fact i'm surprised it didn't LOSE power ! Why? Because you said they used a triumph tune. The tune is ALL important ! It's what makes the mods do thier thing. Without a proper tune any mods you do with at best add a little bit and at worse make the bike run worse than without the mods. I'm rather shocked a dealer doesn't know enough to realize that ! You may wanna find a new place to have your bike worked on because if they don't get that i'd be afraid of what else them don't know.

If i install the tors tune in mine it runs like there are no mods. Don't they know the bc stuff comes with custom tunes?

 
2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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 intimidator32 
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Posted : 11 Jan 2014 - 14:38   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: daz)
 
Daz, the tech new that of course but said the customer didnt want to chance his warranty with a tune-boy or tuneECU tune . the dealer that did my tune-boy tune said that they would honor my warranty if something happened but this dealer said they couldn't be sure so that and the fact the other dealer had a dyno was why i went with them and not my home dealer but this guy knows his stuff but can only do what the service manager will allow. i plan on going with the BC airbox removal kit and a re-tune at some point but I'm waiting/hoping that some cam solution will surface before i do that.

 
currently on a slow Harley but will have another Triumph eventually
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 daz 
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Posted : 11 Jan 2014 - 19:22   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: intimidator32)
 
I see. Well, would do some serious research b4 u do the airbox thing. I kinda figured it might not be the way to go with this bike unless you are doing some very involved engine mods, and so far that looks to be the case judging from people's results so far. I think the stock tuned box is your best bet till you start doing serious mods. But i think with pipes, cat removal and tune, chances are the airbox will do little if anything to the good. I think that unless you plan on hotter than 1700 cam and some head work or such, your best bet is probably pipes/cat removal and a good tune. I think that the intake as is with just the seal removed supplies enough air for any exhaust mods you do and then some. A power commander preferably with autotune and the exhaust mods should be all you need to get the max performance you;re gonna get without cams and other work. There are a aussie few guys here getting power about as good as a R3 standard without airbox removal. Custom cams and exhaust mods and possibly some head work with custom tunes.

 
2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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 silverfish 
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Location : Joburg, South Africa
Posted : 19 Jan 2014 - 08:31   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Smitty)
 
Smitty wrote:

AussieDave wrote:

I have my bike booked in to get the cams fitted next week and have opted for custom dyno tune (tuneboy) Brad from bikebiz tells me this will give the best gains and gives me 3 map otions I can change with the flick of the clutch lever .Ill post the results when its done




Any updates or ride reports on this as i am thinking of doing the same!

Cheers


Post edited by silverfish on 19 Jan 2014 - 08:43
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 AussieDave 
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Posted : 20 Jan 2014 - 06:35   Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: silverfish)
 
Nothing to report yet Brad from Bikebiz has been busy with staff off on holidays so put off getting it done till this Thursday .Want him to have plenty of time to work on my baby He keeps saying ill be impressed with the results so I hope so

 
Triumphs the best stuff the rest
2012 T bird Phantom Black 1600 with 1700 cams custom tune Meerkat cat delete and mufflers, K&N filter, Hagon nitro shock&springs ,long haul seat and lots of bling
2013 T100 all Jet Black Bonneville Norman Hyde pipes ,K&N
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